Football in Julypalooza (sponsored by Q and Z)

Quote of the Day:

In the East, college football is a cultural exercise. On the West Coast, it is a tourist attraction. In the Midwest it is cannibalism. But in the South it is religion. And Saturday is the holy day.”     —former Alcorn State Head Coach, Marino “the Godfather” Casem

Ah, the smells of freshly mowed grass after a rogue summer thundershower. The sound of the air conditioner’s never ceasing drone. The sight of shoe polish painted on SUV rear windows boasting “Little League World Series Bound!”. It must be time for football.

It is July in Mississippi. Thus, it is time for the annual statewide debate on whether Mississippi State and Ole Miss should play Southern Miss in football. Short answer, “of course.”

The excuses for the “Big Three” not playing one another are legion, but basically it all boils down to the fact that in the late 1970’s and 1980’s USM won too many times against their in-state SEC affiliated opponents. As a State fan, its embarrassing to not play Southern because they will beat us more often than we like. I realize that most State and Ole Miss fans disagree with my contention, and if you are one of them feel free to state your case below. Here is TB’s epistle on why they should play.

  1. Currently Ole Miss and State play four non-conference games. One is generally against a lower division team, one against a regional opponent such as Memphis or Tulane, one is typically a power conference foe and one is a wild card or a “buy” game. In recent years that wild card game has been difficult to schedule. Teams like UAB  that were formerly willing to travel to Starkville or Oxford in exchange for a one time check are now demanding 2 for 1 deals where our schools have to play road games in places like Murfreesboro, TN. College football games are big time economic events, not only in ticket sales but in gas, food, beer, hotel and merchandise sales and in the services associated with putting on a large social gathering. According to one article I found, the economic impact of a football game at Southern is about 2 million dollars, so I’ll use that number. If State and Ole Miss made their “buy” game a home and home with USM, there would be two additional big time games in state each year–a 4 million dollar per year economic boost to a state that needs it, and I think that is conservative. Let’s take it a step further. If instead of paying an out of state lower level team to come to Mississippi each year the big three all rotated playing a SWAC school a conservative guess is another 3 million per year would stay in state that would’ve otherwise gone out. It is a certainty ticket sales for all these games would exceed the games they are replacing, so the numbers could well be higher. And with good scheduling–early season dates or Thursday nights– and the proliferation of televised games in 2009, there is a much higher likelihood now than there was back in 1988 that a MSU/USM or OM/USM game would be televised. I think it is reasonable to expect an economic impact to the state of Mississippi at somewhere between 70 and 100 million dollars per decade. We could use it.
  2. It would be a helluva lot of fun.
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About travellinbaen

I'm a 40 year old lawyer living in Ridgeland, Mississippi. I'm several years and a couple hundred miles removed from most of my old running buddies so I started the blog to provide an outlet for many of the observations and ideas that used to be the subjects of our late night/happy hour/halftime conversations and arguments.
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65 Responses to Football in Julypalooza (sponsored by Q and Z)

  1. calicobebop says:

    I was blessed to have gone to basic Supply Officer training in Athens GA in the fall of 2002. Talk about a town that takes their football seriously! It was a lot of fun and, though I’m not a huge fan, I actually kind of got into it. Well, the tailgating part anyway. 🙂

  2. quail09 says:

    beer’s on me

  3. I know that was for calico, but you should plan on buying one or three for good ol TB come September too. I won’t wear maroon.

  4. Calico, I’ve never seen a game in Athens, and it is on my short list. That’s a cool town.

  5. Boy the comments are goin crazy on this subject. I’ll just keep em coming.

    But seriously, Quail, you played a few games against USM. From a player’s perspective, would you rather have a game against them, home and home or would you rather have a 2 for 1 with a school like La Tech?

  6. Samsmama says:

    Hmmm, I’m trying super hard to come up with something. I don’t care much about football. I don’t drink beer. I’m going to have to think on this some more.

    Rock Chalk Jayhawk, go KU!

  7. Jessie Lou says:

    SM – you don’t have to drink beer – it can be your drink of choice.

    I used to have a USM button that said “Go To Hell Ole Miss” and that was from 1980 I believe and during the Sammy Winder, Reggie Collier days. I saw USM play Ole Miss in Jackson and alas, I cannot recall the score but I know I had a good time.

    Short answer – they should play and let the chips fall where they may, or the football as the case may be.

  8. Jessie Lou says:

    SM – doesn’t KU play on that blue field? No wonder you don’t like football! I cannot watch it on the blue field – hurts my eyes and it just ain’t normal.

  9. Samsmama says:

    Blue field? Not to my knowledge. I’ll feel really stupid if they do, but I really don’t think so. So somebody has a blue field? That’s just not natural.

  10. Jessie Lou says:

    It might be Boise State – but yes, someone has a blue field. It is awful! Grass is green and that is what football should be played on.

  11. Boise State has the blue field. Kansas plays on an endless field that just goes on and on and on….

    TB, as a lifelong, die-hard Ole Miss fan — have I told you about their men’s tennis team? — I must say that I feel the same way about an Ole Miss/USM game as I do about gay marriage. Ambivalence.

    I don’t care one way or another if gay people want to get married, but I’m against a law that says they can’t.

    Well, I don’t care if Ole Miss/USM play each other, but I’m against a law/rule that says that have to. You make a good economic argument. I’d like to hear an Ole Miss coach talk about how it would affect recruiting, etc. (and show empirical evidence of course).

    As a purist, though, I do have a problem with adding another rival. I’m supposed to hate 2 schools as it is — MSU and LSU. Once you throw in the fact that we’re in the SEC West and I therefore hate Alabama, you can see that my hate quickly gets spread thin. I don’t want to dilute my hatred of all things MSU/LSU/AL because I now have to hate USM. Everyone knows that anything less than an intense, focused hatred isn’t true hate.

    And if they can take away my true hate, they’ll be a’comin’ for my guns!

  12. Samsmama says:

    Oh, I get it. Real funny. Sure, our field goes on and on. And it went all the way on to the Orange Bowl in ’08.

    I absolutely LOVE TDW’s reasoning on that matter. And couldn’t agree more about gay marriage.

  13. Jessie Lou says:

    And praise be to the Lord our God – KU don’t have the blue field. Bad english intended.

    I must be the exception to the rule – I’m not “in hate” with any of those teams except when I play them – at that point I just want to win.

  14. Zeek says:

    I must say that on this subject TB, I agree with you. I just think it goes against the grain of Mississippi football theology. USM is not an unknown, un-conferenced, nobody as it were 30 yrs. ago. The risk/reward was not viable in the Steve Sloan/ Emory Bellard eras. Now, we should tee it up and get after it for state bragging rights!!!

  15. quail09 says:

    TB…..i have no problem with Ole Miss or MSU playing USM……i say play it straight up….one year on your field and one year on mine….we used to play in Jackson on a neutral field….as we did the egg bowl….i remember a huge brawl after one game….after the game near the USM sideline…..it was as heated as any game we played….we knew a lot of their players and they knew ours….i think it might be the only way USM can get a decent crowd to attend their games…..also, Athens is a helluva place to play a football game…played their twice…i remember some students would always bring chairs and sofas and place them on the railroad tracks that ran along the outside of the stadium in back of one endzone…free view of the game…as long as a train didn’t come by…that endzone is enclosed these days…..but Herschel, Buck Balew and the gang were a great team….i just remember the crowd singing, “nananana…nananana….heyheyhey…..goodbye…..”

  16. coachteajay says:

    Well for those of you that know me, you know where I stand on this. USM is playing Alcorn as their pre-season scrimmage, at least we are keeping the money in state. It will be a sellout, just like the Jstate game was a few years back. The game will be a blowout, but at least we will get to see their band at halftime. Unfortunately, the rival will not take place anytime soon, Ole Miss’s chancellor admitted that they do not wish to play USM in the Clarion Liar just two years ago. Honestly, as much as I loathe both those institutions to the north, they really have no reason to play USM. They have the luxury of being in the So Everyone Cheats conference, which, even though they are both perennial bottom feeders, they receive millions every year due in part to this association. State alone received 16 million this year as its part of the SEC pie. The new TV contract that the SEC just signed is worth 2.2 billion dollars over the next 15 years. So it does State and the Plantation no good to play a series that they will lose more often than win. They can continue to schedule the Northern Arizona’s of the world, finish at or near the bottom of the SEC west and still make millions by just being in the conference. Plus they get a share of the pie when LSU, Bama, and Florida play in the BCS bowl series. Which is in violation of anti-trust laws buts thats another discussion. Yes one of the reasons that the schools stop playing was that Southern, was winning these games and the losses were too much to for the “big boys” to stomach, but another reason is that the chancellors at Moo U and the Plantation felt that without those in-state games Southern athletics would go belly up. The plan didn’t work. Its the same reason Bama and Auburn don’t play UAB, they do not want to see them succeed. Southern now has 1 for 1 series with Kansas, Virginia, Louisville, and Nebraska. So they are doing just fine. To address the attendance comment, once again, State and the Plantation sellout because they have the luxury of playing Bama, LSU, ect..week in and week out. How many empty seats are in those stadiums when Maine, VMI, TN. Chattanooga are in town? There are a lot. Once again its due in part to their association with the SEC, not that they are elite programs. Southern has always done more with less, and I would love to see how they would fair with access to the millions of dollars that the other two schools have enjoyed as being part of the SEC’s welfare program. We will never know the answer to that question. Yet one must realize that over the last 45 years the combined number of SEC titles brought home by State and the Plantation is 0. Kentucky has won more SEC championships in that time. Really this a dead issue, the game is not going to be played, State and the Plantation can make millions every year just by getting their asses handed to them in conference play, and they don’t need to take another whoopin from Southern also, to make money. I just wish the alumni would spare me the excuses and just admit that the people that run their universities are chickenshi* and lets move on to the bar to have another bourbon and water and stop wasting our time arguing this.

  17. quail09 says:

    Coach…..i’ll have a bourbon with ya anytime, my brotha…..but….i can assure you…playing in the SEC is no luxury

  18. quail09 says:

    P.S…..ask Texas Tech and Florida

  19. coachteajay says:

    I’d prefer to ask Vandy and South Carolina

  20. coachteajay says:

    And yes recieving millions of dollars a year to be the whooping boys of the SEC, is a luxery. I’m sure anyone in the athletic dept. in Hattiesburg would change positions with you in a New York minute.

  21. Let’s not get distracted in all this from the fact that USM blows. They haven’t been a “giant killer” since about 91. I just think it is stupid for the in state schools not to play.

  22. quail09 says:

    Average attendance….Ole Miss 54,000….State 47,000…..USM 32,000

  23. quail09 says:

    Coach…if it’s all about the money for you….you should try to get some of your fellow golden eagles in the stands for home games…..what did ya’ll have at the spring game??…like 7000??

  24. Greeg says:

    TB, you are right that USM has not been a giant killer for a while, but they do not blow. And I would not consider Ole Miss or State to be ‘Giants’. It is just plain stupid that they do not play each other. The attendance numbers mean nothing because if they played each other it would be a sellout every game no matter where it was played with USM fans probably in the majority if held at a neutral site. Bottom line is that Ole Miss is scared as hell to play USM.

  25. coachteajay says:

    once again Moo U and the plantation have sellouts because they play in the SEC, that affords them the luxery of playing and getting beat by the likes LSU, Bama ect… every year which are teams that people want to see. If the welfare recipients from MS. had to play in CUSA with Rice, UAB on the home schedule they would not have sellouts. Enjoy having your ass handed to you year in and year out. Or we could just handle this on the field but the bottom feeders from MS. that reside in the SEC are to gutless to play USM and take their whoopin…bottom line your chickenshi*! One has to ask, if the SEC was able to draw up a new conference would Moo U and the Mississippi Merediths (in honor of James) even be asked to join that conference in 2009? The answer is no, you drag that conference down, no SEC titles since 1963 from either one of you, my dad was 12 at that time. So go to your grove with your salmon pants and pat each other on the back and assure each other how great you are for atleast one day a week before you have to go back to reality, chasing ambulances, and while your at it, pay off some judges so you can afford your new Lexus. Just make sure its not in front of my F150. Rememeber the last 14 games moo U played USM, USM is 10-4, their record against the Merediths is 7-3 in the last 10. Nuff said!! Enjoy your welfare check come February. Quail you have not enlightened me as to why you think they don’t play…come on admit it…..The Merediths and Moo U are COWARDS! Just one of you please admit that.

  26. coachteajay says:

    TB, you say that USM is not Giant Killers, you are correct, but when has State ever done anything on the field in our lifetime? Other than that year they did that little cute dawg pound dance, State has been a JOKE, on the field. Even you have to admit that. So to say that USM blows, you might want to look at what is going on in Starkghanastan before you start calling out other programs. Give southern 10 years in the SEC with access to those welfare funds and I promise you, they would accomplish a lot more than both those two laughing stocks have in the last 45.

  27. Greeg, didn’t mean to intimate State or OM were giants, simply referring to the old USM cliche.

    Coach, I do not intend to get into a cripple fight over the relative merits of State/USM’s football programs. The argument over why we don’t play is however unwinnable for my side.

    And for the millionth time, it ain’t welfare. It is hard damn work being the doormat. Also, we have a pretty decent hoops program and contribute to the league through that route.

  28. quail09 says:

    I don’t know why we don’t play….the powers that be probably are scared….i have no inside knowledge there and neither do you, coach…..like i said, let’s do it…..head to head….you can count the money while we kick your ass

  29. Jessie Lou says:

    Coach – please meet me after class so I can teach you how to spell the word Luxury. Otherwise, your arguments are well taken.

  30. irvineredd says:

    God, I love the distaste that emanates from Hattiesburg for it’s “welfare” getting big brothers. Sounds like jealousy. Honestly, I wish Ole Miss/State did play USM, but they have nothing to gain either way. If OM/MSU won then people would just say we were supposed to win, and if we lose it will be played up like an upset, despite the fact that neither case would be true. Southern is usually solid, but as you pointed out coach you guys play the UAB’s and Rice’s of the world, while we play Florida, Alabama, LSU, Tennessee etc. Adding a difficult game on top of that can be highly damaging to your whole season. We’re not doormats every year. Ask LSU, Florida, and Texas Tech how much they enjoyed getting their beatdowns last year from the supposed door mat plantation up there in north MS. It’s not our fault we make more money than you guys. Why doesn’t USM try to weasel their way into the SEC?

  31. face says:

    I don’t know where to find it, but I would like to see what the average attendance for ole miss and state was in the years prior to the Bowl Coalition formation in 1992 which was the precursor for the BCS.

    I may be wrong but I don’t think the stadium capacities were much higher than the 32,000 USM now averages.

  32. irvineredd says:

    Why doesn’t USM get a bigger stadium? Could they actually regularly fill a 65,000 seater? Don’t get me wrong I wish USM well, I have no ill will toward you guys, but I’m curious if ya’ll could draw that many on a regular basis.

    Also, serious question here, how many titles has USM won in football?

  33. In 92, FWIW, my recollection is State/OM drew around the low to mid 30’s on average and USM drew around 16K. In fact, one of the street justifications for dumping USM was to cause their attendance to drop below the NCAA minimum for Div I status. Stupid. Also, as I recall, Pascagoula High outdrew USM 2-3 times in 1987.

    This post was not about which turd smelled best, but about the proposition they should all play.

    Irv, I disagree with the proposition that there is nothing to gain in beating USM. Bragging rights is all there is to gain, to me, in winning college football games, and this thread is proof positive of the value of that.

    And CTJ, the last two times we played USM, we beat them.

    And we all got diplomas from Hardy High left under our windshield wipers as parting gifts when we left the Hub.

  34. irvineredd says:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=4336261

    This is a little off topic, but is relatable. I just read this article about the anti-trust case against the NFL that is under consideration by the Supreme Court. It’s basically if the NFL wins they will be confirmed as a “single entity” and thus free of anti-trust litigation. This would also apply to the other major leagues, and basically provide unprecedented control for the owners. So wave good bye to free agency, team run websites, etc., and say hello to higher ticket costs, strikes, lockouts, and higher profits for the owners. It will also affect college football because the BCS could then be considered a single entity and we will officially never get a playoff system in college football, which is unfair to the Utahs, Boise St., and USM’s of the world. I know that there are some lawyers in the house, so I was curious what ya’ll thought.

  35. irvineredd says:

    TB, bragging rights are only valuable to fans, not the institutions themselves. who’s only gain is money, but would they play in Hattiesburg, where they would make less?

    Don’t get me wrong I wish they would play and I agree that it would be good for the state financially for this to happen, I just don’t think there is enough reward for the respective AD’s in Starkvegas and Oxford Town in order to make it happen.

  36. Baseball already has an antitrust exemption. And football does de facto if not de jure. They lost an anti-trust case to the USFL in the mid 80’s and were hit with statutorily mandated triple damages.

    The jury awarded one lonely buck. It was tripled to 3.

    Other than baseball, the only other industry I KNOW of (there may be others) that has an antitrust exemption is insurance, fyi.

  37. irvineredd says:

    True.

    In the article he talks about how MLBPA is also the only union that forced their agreements via lockouts, while the NFL and NBA have both relied on anti-trust litigation to get gains like free agency. As much as Donald Fehr sucks, that was a smart move, because now the other unions might get put into a position where the only leverage they have is a lockout. The NFL faces countless anti-trust cases but they usually get thrown out at the lower level, in this case the NFL took a strange step of supporting the plaintiff’s petition to the Supreme Court because they want to get them to rule on the single-entity subject. If they hear the case, Roberts, Alito, Scalia, and Thomas are likely to side with the NFL, despite the fact that the argument that the NFL is a single entity appears, at least to me, to be total B.S. The NFl is 32 separate franchises that compete with each other on every level and possible aspect of running their organizations.

    As for college football, the BCS would be thrilled with this because it would kill the possibility of a “small” school making it to the championship and guarantee them the money that can be generated when Florida or USC or Ohio State or LSU make it to the title game.

    Both the anti-trust issue and the OM/State refusing to play USM, is completely about power and money, and in the end the ultimate victim is the fan who ends up paying more and seeing lesss and feeling empty inside.

  38. I agree the NCAA needs some trust busting. The BCS is the most prominent area, but just as bad is their penchant for selective prosecution and their damn dubious methodology in collecting and reviewing evidence.

    Cue Face re BCS…..

  39. coachteajay says:

    I’m done with this argument because the old excuses that no longer hold water are rearing their evil head. USM’s record in the last 30 years against those two institutions from the north speaks for itself. Amazing how we play in all sports but football. Good luck to State this year, I will be rooting for them at least one day around Thanksgiving. Hopefully after this last arrest they will be able to field a team. As for the Meredith’s, every sportscaster in the nation is predicting a magical season for them. To be honest, if the Meredith’s don’t do it this year, they will never get to Atlanta. Everything lines up perfect for them. However, if history tells us anything they will fall on their face, and when they do, that devilish little chuckle you hear from the coast, will be coming from my lips. One of my fondest memories of college football was in the mid 90’s when the Meredith’s had Georgia on the ropes, and well choked. As I sat out in the grove enjoying a bourbon I saw this very disgruntled young man stumbling and saying things like G.D. Rebels, it was none other than Pascagoula’s own Craig Summerlin. I said “hey Craig what’s up buddy?” he responded with “EFF you TJ” as he quickened his pace to flee the scene of yet another heartbreaking defeat. Ahh the memories. And I leave you with some quotes from some famous people.

    “You look at a fine program like Southern Mississippi, forced to play on Thursday nights, all the new combinations and leagues all directed toward TV, and what has it gotten us?”— Joe Paterno

    “We admit you beat us, we’re just not going to play” Clarion Ledger Feb. 2007 – King of Cowards Kayat

    “He’s a good boy he just can’t read” -Powe’s Mother

  40. irvineredd says:

    Have no doubt Coach, we’ll definitely choke, it’s the Ole Miss way. It’s how we roll.

  41. travellinbaen says:

    I think maybe we’ll start on predictions for the next post in the Q and Z football follies series. Only a month and a half until the anticipated return of Thursday Pickin, season two. This year, with prizes. Maybe.

  42. Zeek says:

    TJ (which I have always thought stood for Total Joke) you must be kidding. Take it easy turbo. I’m pretty sure that every UM fan just said we SHOULD play. All I keep getting from your driveling diatribe is hatred for UM and MSU. It’s cool, I understand, you should hate in-state rivals from the best conference in the nation that are more successful, well at least UM is. Hate the powers that be, not the program. We are basically in the same choppy waters as you, just in a slightly nicer liferaft. We are all fighting for respect to be considered a factor on the national scene in the dog-eat-dog world of NCAA football. When we play each other,in whatever sport, let’s hate each other and go at it. But if we are not, let’s support each other and hope that all our successes will be good for our state. Can’t we all just get along??? You know what? Scr*w that, Go to Hell State, and kiss my Rebel A$$, USM, you bunch of non-factors, I wish we did play ya’ll so we could kick your weak A$$ !!!! HOTTY TODDY !!!!!!

  43. face says:

    I’ve been holding it in TB! I didn’t want to hijack your thread. I don’t see how that S.Ct. decision would affect college football though. I don’t think there is any way college football could argue they are a single entity. The separate conferences control college football, not the NCAA. The conferences negotiate their own TV deals and compete with the other conferences for those contracts.

  44. Jessie Lou says:

    Prizes? Prizes? I can hardly wait!

    Do you get anything for 19th place or solid 2nd? Or is it just the number 1 spot?

    TJ – go have some bourbon and a deep breath. Perhaps a Dixie Darling or two would help as well.

  45. irvineredd says:

    The S. Ct decision would create a situation for the NCAA where they could avoid any anti-trust suits. As for the BCS, just look at the gripes of the Mountain West as of late. The BCS holds a monopoly over the competition, if a conference is not signed on, then they simply can’t participate. At least with the present situation those smaller conferences, the MAC, MWAC, C-USA, etc., have something they can threaten with, unlike what the situation would be like if the S. Ct. ruled for the NFL. In which case, no chance in hell of those conferences ever getting a fair shake.

  46. face says:

    That assumes that college football would be considered a single entity, too. And I don’t see that argument addressed. I can see the argument that the NFL, NBA and MLB are single entities, but I just don’t see how college football could be considered a single entity with the separate conferences holding so much power and directly competing with each other.

  47. irvineredd says:

    The same could be said of each team in the big 3 leagues, which is why I don’t think any them should be considered a single entity.

  48. larry says:

    Tom, This Craig Summerlin you speak of seems to be quite a good judge of character to stay away from a buzzard in the Grove. I would love to see the Rebs play Mississippi Southern, but our Chancellor and AD would rather give our fans another home game, see the money spent in Oxford, at our stadium, on our products, and with the people who support Ole Miss. I imagine you were not happy after losing to UTEP in 2008? If I had seen you at Strick’s walking out with a twelve pack of Keystone Light after that game you would not have wanted to hear about it from a Rebel fan. The thing is, Tom, when it comes to UMS Football, I just don’t care.

  49. quail09 says:

    IR….please refrain from even the slightest hint of anything legal or having to do with the law…TB and Face cannot resist holding forth ad nauseum on these matters….especially when it has nothing to do with the subject being discussed….p.s. it breaks up the momentum of a good fight which seems imminent

  50. face says:

    I didn’t start it!

    Coach, you should try being there when Vandy scores late to defeat the rebs. I highly recommend it!

    One more thing, Coach. Dixon should know better than getting a dui this close to the start of the season. He should have done it in January so he could be suspended for the summer and reinstated in time for fall practice like Southern’s RB.

  51. larry says:

    But you had to chime in! Maybe Tommy Bowden will come back to the Big Easy.

  52. quail09 says:

    Big feature article on the Big Three renewing their annual games….talk of getting the legislature to mandate it….oh, this is in the sunday edition of the Sun Herald…..NO quotes from ole miss though….small quote from state…..lots of quotes and opinions from USM folks….i think there’s 2-3 more articles to come this week in a series on this subject….even the editor opined in suppport of renewing the rivalry….i say let’s get it on!!!!!!!!

  53. SMILYJ says:

    I believe State and Ole Miss should probably play USM. I could at least get to go watch some games. Plus it would be like a home game for either ole miss or STATE since they would outdraw USM at their own home field. But it wouldn’t benefit State or Olemiss win or lose cause a typical USM fan would say “see we can beat anybody, You all are scared to play us!” when they win the game. Or they would cry “if we played in the SEC and had all that $ to recruit we could be like State and Olemiss” when they lose the game. Also, I can’t get over the fact that at the second to last game in the State USM series, after USM had beaten FSU, that they thought it was cool to do the Seminole chop chear. All 300 fans they had in attendance was doing it. Then the next year, when State won again, they were still doing it. I thought that was gay. But some 15 years later, I went to another USM game. Against someone like East Carolina. And I s*@t you not. THEY WERE STILL DOING THE FSU CHANT!

  54. coachteajay says:

    Cleveland’s article on the subject in Clarion Liar, was actually pretty good.

    Smiley: I was at every home game last year and there were no gay chomps or anything. A lot has changed since you were working in Hattiesburg at Ace hardware.

    Zeek, the “total joke” comment was a little uncalled for, as I have kept my disdain aimed at Ole Miss not you.

    Baen: since you do not care for USM. Pick up Maxim this month, Danny Sheridan ranked MS. State as the 6th worst BCS team. With all that money you get from the SEC, you should be able to do better.

    I did a little research, Ole Miss will travel to these places instead of Hattiesburg,
    Memphis- off campus home game for OM
    Tulane (can’t blame em, New Orleans is a fun away game for the fans)
    UAB- sorry this one makes no sense
    Texas- No problem here, take your loss and fun times in Austin
    Fresno St.- really?

    State travels to
    Middle TN. State- really? That’s in Murfreesboro. Who knew that?
    Tulane- no problem here as stated earlier
    Houston, UAB, Memphis- all CUSA conference members. same as USM
    South Alabama- they have a football team?

    I cannot take credit for the “diatribe” below however, this USM grad brings up some good points and may clear the air as to why there is so much bad blood between the institutions.

    “The animosity between the two schools started before most of you were born, and in my opinion, it all goes back to when Southern Miss started consistently beating Ole Miss in football. In 1970, USM beat Ole Miss 30 to 14 — at the time they were 4th in the nation and Archie Manning was on his way to winning the Heisman. That was a great day for Southern Miss football, but it made the Governor mad, upset the Lt Gov, disturbed most of the members of the legislature and the IHL board. Since most elected officials in those days were lawyers and 95% of them were Ole Miss graduates this created a political nightmare for USM.

    If that were not bad enough, we kept beating them (7 out of the last 10 times we played) thus the good ole (Ole Miss) boys in Jackson made it their business to use their political power to put lowly Southern Miss in its place. They were shameless and vindictive in doing so. That board, now known as the State College Board was responsible for allocating funds to all the universities. Our problem was that we had little, or no representation on the Board and we took it in the shorts over and over.

    A class taught at USM would receive less allocation per student, for exactly the same course taught at State or Ole Miss. In the early 80’s the College Board closed down our graduate journalism dept. and transferred it to Oxford, because we were beginning to get too much positive publicity. When Horace Fleming (USM president) was fired the vote was 11 to 1 to fire him and the only vote to keep him was cast by the only member on the board who was a Southern Miss grad. When Shelby Thames was hired, the only person voting not to hire him was the lone USM grad. I am not making a statement about the jobs those two men did, I am pointing out that the board always went against the wishes of our only representation. These are just a couple of examples, there are dozens more.

    I am hopeful things will improve with the recent appointment of two USM grads to the board and the retirement of Ole Miss Chancellor Robert Khayat. Khayat was a former football player who felt those Ole Miss loses to USM did irreparable damage to his beloved plantation, and he made no bones about his dislike for USM.

    Many of you feel that we should not spend time worrying about Ole Miss. I think that they are our competition whether we play them or not — whether we like it or not. We are in the same state, competing for the same students, athletes, and dollars. I can assure you this — they are worried about us and are do everything they can to relegate us to a lower status.”

  55. irvineredd says:

    Just as an aside to all of this. All of you USM fans keep touting that once you started to beat us (meaning Ole Miss) we started to get all worried and up in arms about your “rise”, except from 1966 to 1984 (the last period in which we played regularly), our record against the golden eagles was 12-6, which included a 69-7 whooping, one year before USM winning 30-14, which was the first time in the series that Southern won.

    Oh, and Archie never won the Heisman. He came in 4th.

    I think they need to start teaching the meaning of the word consistent in Hattiesburg.

  56. Sweet says:

    I think he was saying that Archie was on his way to the Heisman until the Buzzards gave him that beat down
    OM – 11-1 reg season, 1-0 SEC title game, gets screwed as another 1 loss or lesser 0 loss team gets to play for national title
    State – needs to start castrating farm animals again
    USM – 7-5 and another bowl appearance

  57. irvineredd says:

    Still, consistent? Also, the year before 69-7. That’s a beatdown.

  58. quail09 says:

    Coach……you gotta be kiddin….why wouldn’t we travel to Texas and Fresno…these are recruit-rich states where many of Ole Miss’ current starters came from….including the starting quarterback, Jevon Sneed (who left Texas after his freshman year)……this past year our three starting linebackers all came from Cali….their homeboys and younger admirers who keep up with their college careers come to these games to see them play and check out the team, coaches, etc……that’s why our road wins in Gainesville, Baton Rouge, and Dallas were such a big deal…..three of the richest recruiting states…and we kicked ass in all three with players from those states……now, H’burg is a cool place and all…..and i want to play USM as bad as you want to the play OM, but dude…please…..i remember listening to USM almost beat nebraska a couple of years ago….while i drove down 55/49 listening to my radio…i was proud as hell at their effort and snapped my plantation suspendors when the nebraska fans gave them a standing ovation…you don’t seem to be able to muster the same mutual respect….dude, get a grip

  59. Jessie Lou says:

    Whiskey, Guinness anyone?

    Also, the young man’s name is spelled:

    Jevan Snead

  60. Jessie Lou says:

    I read that article this morning in our paper. Very good article on Coach Carmody.

  61. BR says:

    I have been to a few Southern Games the past couple of years and the atmosphere sux’s none of the games where even close to being sold out
    i did have a good time before the games tailgating
    but once inside i was looking forward to halftime
    so i could go get a another cold one, most of the time we would not go back in. I think the big 3 should play could you imagine all those damn cowbells ringing the entire game…

  62. quail09 says:

    TB….thanks for sharing the article on Coach Carmody….he came to my parent’s house on my 18th birthday to sign me to a football scholarship with Ole Miss….the paper sent a photographer to snap a pic for the next day’s edition…i’ve still got the picture…he only coached one more year at OM before being ousted with the rest of em when sloan came in as head coach….we had a heck of a Dline when he coached….they were prepared and tough and ready when game time arrived…i was on the scout team that year as an offensive lineman…so i spent lots of time with him as we modeled the opposing team’s plays…..good guy who had my back during a serious scenario that played out that year….i’ve got tons of respect for him….btw, he coached the DL during the game where we defeated Notre Dame in Jackson….couple of his guys got recognized nationally for their play that day….JL…any misspellings??

  63. Zeek says:

    TJ, come on dude,cut the Napoleonic -little man- I have a chip on my shoulders- routine. A lot of what you said is probably true, but the average alum/ fan/ player is not to blame.

  64. Jessie Lou says:

    Dang! Just when I had my ruler ready to pop your knuckles! Very Good Q09. You ought to post the photo on here – I’d like to see it. That must have been an exciting time for you.

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